“I’m curious–what does Flagg’s personal writings have to do with TES or the men’s group?”

Nothing. It’s just an old tactic people use to try and get others to toe the party line. The idea is apparently that if you hold any position at TES you aren’t allowed to think or speak independantly.

What hilarious about this is that Alan’s blog itself has an article critical of the ACLU for adopting a policy of disallowing it’s people from speakign in ways the organization doesn’t like.

But hey, why be consistent 🙂

——————–

It’s easy to see why the silliness like recent posts on the TES list comparing people disagree with the NCSF and serial killers gets so much play in the BDSM community.

Let’s for just a moment say that someone who was IQ challenged honestly believes that an offhanded comment like that was to be literally taken as truth (clearly, as evidenced here, such possability of learning disabilities exist). Let’s pretend that deep down in his mind Flagg had the image and thought of throwing someone off a roof. He didn’t. Nor did he act to attempt it. Nor did he advocate it. Nor did he express regret that it hadn’t happened.

In other words, even if the comment was literally a true expression of a flash impression from some deep dark and animal part of Flaggs personality – his higher ethics were firmly in control. Just as they should be.

But hey, don’t let that get in the way of a good echo chamber like outrage festival. Everyone needs a hobby.

Re: Sorry if I offended your delicate sensibilities, Alan…

The ironic thing is that people keep saying that I was offended by the comment. It takes a little more than that to offend me. Nonetheless, I still felt the comment served little purpose and was disturbing. Frankly, it distracts attention away from what supposedly good things have been done with the Men’s Group. Although, I suppose I’ve now given the Men’s group a rallying cry. (i.e. throw ’em off the roof).

I suppose that this whole discussion has also raised another question about the men’s group. Not only is there the reaction to a woman “intruding” into the Eagle, (I didn’t know a public place could be intruded upon), but the reaction to an unpopular opinion appears to be even more objectionable. Look what reaction I got when I offered an opinion outside of the groupthink. I think I’ll stay away from the edges of buildings. 😉

If she wants to do it simply because that person is a woman, then it might be.

Re: Sorry if I offended your delicate sensibilities, Alan…

I wouldn’t use the word offended to describe my thoughts reading that sentence, but it did raise an eyebrow. It was the jump from “feeling like a woman’s entrance would be intrusive” to “make him feel violent” that did it. There’s a big difference between thinking someone should be expelled, immediately, and possibly even with some outraged remarks at the trespass, and wanting to throw them to their death. I would say the dynamic of the men’s group is intense indeed if it provokes that effect. Or maybe the instinct for mob violence is just closer to the surface in people than I think.

What is interesting is that I also found the presence of that woman intrusive, but wasn’t as much because of her sex, as it was I felt it was because she was there to gawk, out of curiosity and not respecting the space. I would even suspect she was there because she knew her presence would demand attention. I think had a woman been there, but been a truly leather oriented person, who you know respected where she was and the environment, I wouldn’t have felt the same. Similarly, if a couple of guys came in and were more ridiculing than respectful, I would have felt just as intruded upon. That was more the root of my dissatisfaction.

As far as your comment, I’ll write back, I have to go look up misogyny.

– Ken

Re: Sorry if I offended your delicate sensibilities, Alan…

Hi.

Woman here, and not offended.

But I will say that for me, I think it’s a matter of context. I totally get what Flagg is saying when he’s talking about being in an all-male group – that gathered specifically for the purpose of being all men, in a space that is only for men – and feeling like a woman’s entrance would be intrusive and make him feel violent.

However, if he had said that he was just hanging out at a restaurant, or at a TES meeting, and he suddenly felt like throwing the next woman who entered off a roof, I might feel differently.

I’m curious–what does Flagg’s personal writings have to do with TES or the men’s group? Are you saying that one should have self-edit in their own “space” for the sake of the bigger group? That one is first and foremost a representitive of that organization?

If you want to call someone out for being misogynistic–great. What jumps out at me is that it sounds like you are NOT coming from a place where you are concerned about Flagg on a personal level but, rather, concerned that his writings may portray TES or the men’s group in a negative light.